|
|
|
Rechavam "Gandhi" Ze'evy 1926-2001
Back
in 1995 I had to opportunity to first meet Knesset Member Rechavam Ze'evy.
Perhaps Israel's last real Zionist. He was an amazing person. Even if you
disliked his views, you saw that he was a good person, who said what he
believed, and wouldn't compromise on those beliefs.
His love for Israel and the People of Israel always showed through. You always saw him wearing the dog tags listing Israel's POW and kidnapped soldiers.
Today, he was killed by Arab terrorists. Israel has suffered a greater loss than it can imagine. Only in the coming months, will we begin to realize our loss of this bastion of strength and Zionism.
What follows is an interview that Richard Goldberger and I did with him 6 years ago. I hope you can see more of who this amazing person was, rather than the one-dimensional controversial figure that he was often portrayed as in the media.
Stephen Leavitt
Jerusalem
October 17, 2001
To the Moledet website.
Volume 1, Issue 3 of Yavneh Olami’s “hakol”
December 1995
Stephen Leavitt and Richard Goldberger visited the
Knesset (Stephen received an overly friendly welcome from the security guards)
and (thanks to Ari Fuld) they landed an interview with Rechavam “Gandhi”
Ze’evy, the head of the Moledet party.
The Knesset itself looks like your typical rundown
office building. Slow, tiny elevators, old carpets, and peeling walls perhaps
best describe this bastion of centrist bureaucratic power (the lunchroom is
pretty good though).
We walked into a small busy office on the fifth floor, filled with smoke from Rechavam Ze’evy’s cigar. We made some initial introductions, and this, more or less, is the loose translation of what we discussed…
Background:
On the origin of his nickname:
On Politics and National Affairs:
On the Oslo Process and Palestinian Autonomy:
On the declaration that the treaties are irreversible:
On Jewish Unity:
On investigation of prominent right-wing and religious activists:
On Religion and State:
On his personal level of belief:
On changing the Law of Return:
On civil responsibilities and rights:
On Hesder:
On the coming elections:
Rechavam Ze’evy, a fifth-generation Jerusalemite, was born into a strongly traditional family. As a teenager he was a member of the Labor-Zionist youth movement, and later served in the Palmach and then Tzahal (IDF), where he achieved the position of Commanding General of the Central Command and Head of the Operations Division. He served as Yitzchak Rabin’s advisor on counter-terrorism.
Not initially interested in a career in politics, he eventually gave into pressure from friends, and in 1988 he formed the Moledet Party, which received two mandates in the elections that year. In the 1992 elections, Moledet increased its representation to three seats.
Moledet was formed in response to a perceived need for a strong, nationalist party committed to both secular and religious values. Its policy platform includes advocating the use of Jewish labor, women’s rights, annexation of the administered territories, and perhaps most controversially, ‘voluntary transfer’ of the Arab population from Judea, Samaria and Gaza.
On the origin
of his nickname:
“In the Palmach, I received a crew cut from the army barber. Afterwards my friends wrapped me in a white bed sheet, and put glasses on me – you couldn’t tell who was the Mahatma and who was Ze’evy. I walked into the dining room. Everyone yelled out, “Gandhi, Gandhi,” so the name stuck. I wouldn’t choose it for myself today though.”
“My father’s name was Shlomo. He said the son of Shlomo could only be named Rechavam, so that’s what he named me. He wanted me to name my oldest Aviyah, like from Melachim 1. I said to him, “We’re not kings, we’re not royalty, in fact you’re a socialist!” He answered, “Jewish tradition,” but in the end it didn’t help. I named him Palmach.”
On Politics
and National Affairs:
“Moledet opted to stay out of the coalition formed after the 1988 election. In discussions with Prime Minister Shamir, I said we would join the government on the condition that the coalition platform contain the explicit, written references that no parts Eretz Yisrael including the Golan Heights will be given over to any foreign authority under any circumstances. Shamir didn’t understand why we wanted it. He replied that this was unnecessary, no Israeli government would ever consider withdrawing from the Golan. He refused to write it in. In the end we agreed to support (but not join) the government…”
“With the onset of the Gulf War in 1991, the morale of the country was declining and we accepted an invitation to join the coalition. At a time of such a crisis it is imperative that the Prime Minister of the day receive full backing from all sides of the political spectrum. However, we pulled out of the government after it agreed to attend the Madrid Peace Conference. Ultimately, this led to the collapse of the Shamir government and early elections…”
“On principle we were opposed to Israel’s attendance at the Madrid conference. It was clear that the Israeli representatives were submitting statements of position [in Washington] that in effect laid the groundwork for Palestinian autonomy. We left the government because we didn’t want to be a partner in this awful act of setting up a terrorist state in the heart of Israel…”
“I felt the government handled the Intifada very badly. The army was confused in how to deal with it. Officers were afraid to take responsibility. Yitzchak Rabin Z”L was Defense Minister during the early days of the Intidada. As a commander and fighter he was inspirational. However when it came to dealing with terrorism he just didn’t understand. I told him once ‘Yitzchak, you were my teacher and commander, and from you I learned so much about warfare and military strategy, but when it comes to combating terror you simply don’t understand what needs to be done.’ I didn’t and don’t advocate violence when dealing with stone-throwers. Killing Arabs won’t change anything. There are other non-violent means that are far more effective.”
On
the Oslo Process and Palestinian Autonomy:
“The Likud must bear responsibility for the current, badly misguided process. Menachem Begin planted the seeds for the Palestinian autonomy at Camp David, and these seeds were fertilized by Shamir at Madrid. The end result will inevitably be the establishment of a terrorist state.”
“This is supposed to be peace towards which we are headed? What we are headed for is a war, and a terrible war it will be, during which the Israeli people will suffer like never before. The overriding goal of the Arabs has not changed: they seek the liquidation of the Jewish State and its people. This is no secret, Arafat himself proclaims every day that the return to Acre, Jaffa and Ashkelon is at hand. This very building (the Knesset) was built on Arab land – the village of Sheik Bader. They aim to take it all back, and as far as they’re concerned, the Israeli Parliament can reconvene in Brooklyn.”
On
the declaration that the treaties are irreversible:
“We have already stated that all bets would be off. Negotiations would be immediately suspended”
“Everything is reversible.”
“Observe the daily breaches of the agreements by the Palestinians. According to Oslo I, the Palestinians were allowed to maintain a police force numbering 8000. While the Israeli government buried its head in the sand, the force has now reached 25,000. With Arafat’s penchant for tripling agreed-upon figures, the 15,000 additional policemen of Oslo II will triple to 45,000. The sum of terrorists in police uniform will reach 70,000 following redeployment!”
“This figure exceeds the combined amount of Israeli ground troops (Golani and Givati, not clerks). This is the reality. Next week Arafat will have 70,000 combat soldiers at his disposal in the heart of Israel!”
“Although Yasser Arafat should be tried for war-crimes, he and his cronies will be sent packing to Tunis. As ‘Chief of Staff’ of the Intifada, Faisal Husseini will stand trial as a war criminal. He is responsible for the deaths of 341 Jews. Ahmed Tibi (a senior Israeli-Arab advisor to Arafat) will be sent back to his gynecological practice in Taibe. The so-called Palestinian Police Force/Terrorists will be disarmed. If they refuse to do so, I know how to deploy tanks, air force, and artillery. These [Oslo] treaties were rendered void before they were ever written.”
“The ministers of the current government should be brought to trial. This is a difficult thing to say after the awful murder of Rabin, but they have to stand trial. They are responsible for abandoning and disregarding the welfare of 140,000 of its constituents. They abandoned them by giving them parts of the homeland over to the enemy. For this they don’t have to stand trial? They have to explain their actions to the court.”
“If the courts find them innocent, fine. But I think they have broken the law, betrayed my people, my land, my comrades who fell in battle for the restoration of Eretz Yisrael. Not just the ministers, but also the administrators who assisted. They have committed treason!”
“If only it were true that those who are now calling for national unity were actually trying to promote it. Before you make peace with enemy, you have to make peace with your brothers. The left-wing government clearly chose not to make peace with their brethren. Their priority is to achieve unity with the murderers at the expense of the unity with their brothers.”
“The Left want unity? It is the nation that wants unity. It’s very convenient for the Left to use this slogan of national unity, while it surreptitiously continues with the Oslo process. If only there really was national unity.”
“The government hides behind the camouflage of unity to pursue its own political ends, but where is this unity? This so-called unity is a lie and a sham. There is unity only with the murderers, and with Darawshe (Progressive List for Peace MK) and with Asham Machamid, the anti-Zionists and despisers if the State of Israel, minions of Arafat…”
“As a side point, it was Rabin who created the concept that we need a Jewish majority [in the Knesset] to make difficult decisions, not us. He created this [idea] to pull Shas into his coalition. Today it’s considered racist to say.”
On
investigation of prominent right-wing and religious activists:
“To use such Bolshevik tactics is deplorable. The aim of this witch-hunt is to intimidate the average guy in Kfar Saba or Rehovot, to dissuade him from attending Zo Artseinu rallies. This is not how a democracy should act.”
“Moledet’s platform contains a stronger commitment to religious ideals than either the National Religious Party or the Haredi parties. Even the secular in Moledet must recognize the concept of ‘Am Yisrael B’Eretz Yisrael al Pi Torat Yisrael’(The Nation of Israel, in the Land of Israel, based on the Torah of Israel). But we are not looking to make a Halachic state. We are striving to make a democratic Jewish state.”
“People said it would never succeed, a mixed party like Moledet. It’s exceptionally successful. The secular and religious in Moledet learn from one another. We are all one family, united under one flag. At Moledet, secular and religious feel equally at home. Whoever doesn’t accept ‘Am Yisrael B’Eretz Yisrael al Pi Torat Yisrael’, let them go to Tsomet, or to the Likud.”
“The idea that soldiers might disobey their commanders based on rulings from their Rabbis is not acceptable to me. ‘Dina Demalchuta Dina’ – ‘The law of the land is law’. Rabbis are ruling on critical issues on which they themselves will never have to face the consequences of, while it’s the soldiers who will have to sit in jail.”
“If a soldier or group of soldiers believes that they will be expected to carry out orders they consider to be immoral, the proper place of appeal is the High Court. Ultimately, a person should make up his mind based on his convictions, not on what somebody else has told him.”
On his
personal level of belief:
“I am Jewish and a Zionist, I put on Tefillin every day, I try not to travel on Shabbat, and I have always maintained strict levels of Kashrut observance. When I studied in America, the Moslem students were afraid when I entered the dining room. I used to chastise them for eating pork [against their religion]. I couldn’t understand how they could go against their beliefs. Judaism is the ideological backbone of the Jewish State. Without it, the state loses its significance.”
“I can’t understand those religious people who live in the Golah (Diaspora). If they are religious then it’s not enough that they sing on Pesach, ‘Next year in Jerusalem’, and then stay put. For what do the Jews in Brooklyn or Manchester turn and face Jerusalem three times a day? They go to Shul and then call themselves religious? They have to bring their families to Jerusalem and live a Jewish life in Israel. Zionism doesn’t understand this. Zionism is an essential part of Judaism…”
On changing the
Law of Return:
“I’m dead set against it. Once we start meddling with the Law of Return, we’ll soon be contending with a wave of Arabs looking to immigrate here under the very same law.”
On civil
responsibilities and rights:
“The right to vote and be voted for should be afforded only to those who fulfill their civic obligations. It is untenable that Arab males are starting their MA degrees while their Jewish counterparts are battling to even get into university, having just completed three difficult years of army service.”
“Only 7% of Arabs pay taxes, they don’t serve, they don’t follow building codes… It’s not right that they should receive all the benefits and bear none of the burden.”
“I can understand that serving in the army might be problematic for those who don’t want to fight against fellow Arabs; in that case they should be expected to complete some form of National Service. Indeed, many Arab villages could be completely transformed by community service…”
“Once the Hesder framework was established, the traditional objections of the Haredi community to service were invalidated. I have always accepted the claim that Israel survives on the zechut of those who learn all day. Hesder guarantees these boys the opportunity to both learn all day and to serve. Hesder soldiers are among our best soldiers. The have sechel. They have high morale. It is unacceptable that I must go into battle with my sons, while my Haredi neighbor sits with his sons within the four walls of the Yeshiva…”
“The [Moledet] list will be decided by vote, no one can say who will be where. I’m not even sure that I’ll be number one. Of course, I’m sure, because there’s no one else. But, I’d be happy if there was someone else more qualified…”
“I’m no prophet, although I will say this: on a miniscule budget, with a minimum of fanfare, I managed to earn three seats last election. We plan to build on this success.”